Beyond Business Podcast Ep 12

Written By Debbie Lee

Episode 12

Embracing Nature’s Rhythms with Rowena Gerrett

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EPISODE SUMMARY

Join me in this episode as I talk with Rowena Gerrett about embracing nature’s rhythms in life, work and business. Rowena is a coach and facilitator who supports female entrepreneurs and changemakers to do their work more joyfully and sustainably. She does this through spaces that support their reconnection to their bodies, the natural world and reimagining their place in our wider interconnected world about embracing.

Nature is central to how Rowena lives, works and supports others. In this episode we delve into how the natural world can be intertwined with the entrepreneurial spirit to both support and enrich what we do. We talk about rest is not being a reward, but instead an essential component of a flourishing work cycle.

We tackle the cyclical nature of creativity - what a radical act it can be to honour this and in doing so form a different narrative around productivity and success.

CONNECT WITH ROWENA

If you would like to find out more about Rowena and her work you can do so in the following places:

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Got a topic you’d like to request or a guest to recommend? Drop me an email

 

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

00:03 - Debbie (Host)

Welcome to Beyond Business the podcast, the show for impact driven egopreneurs who want to be part of a bigger change and make a difference that reaches beyond your business alone. This week on the podcast, I have the absolute pleasure of speaking with Ruyna Garrett. Ruyna is a coach and a facilitator who supports female entrepreneurs and change makers to do their work more joyfully and sustainably. She does this through spaces that support our reconnection to the body, to the natural world around us, and supporting people to re-imagine their place in our wider interconnected world. Really central to all of Ruyna's work is bringing nature into our day to day, both how we live and how we work, and that's what we're diving into on today's episode. So I hope you enjoy this rich and vibrant conversation. Okay, we are good to go. Woohoo, it's so lovely to see you, ruyna. A very, very warm welcome to the podcast.

01:19 - Rowena (Guest)

Thank you so much for having me here, Debbie. I'm really glad to be talking to you today.

01:24 - Debbie (Host)

Lovely and I wonder hi are you arriving in this gray mislead, wet Friday?

01:32 - Rowena (Guest)

Well, we've had a beautiful conversation before recording and it's interesting. I'm really noticing the effects of that which I think speaks to already to things that we both have in common in our work in terms of connection and turning up authentically and being whatever we need to be. But, yeah, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling like if the sun came out right now, I'd be really grateful for it. I lean into winter a lot more nowadays than I used to and equally, yeah, I'm really ready for spring to fully emerge.

02:07 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, I feel that too. I feel that too. There's like actually, over the time that we've been talking, there's like little you know, when the clouds start to clear and you get those little glimmers of you can see the sun rays coming through the clouds. That's like just happening outside my window and I'm like, oh, more of that, please.

02:28 - Rowena (Guest)

Yeah, exactly that. That's happening here as well. And yeah, and it's happening. It's happening as our season shifts as well, isn't it?

02:35 - Debbie (Host)

So true, so true. I want a lovely segue into the theme for today's conversation. So we've known each other for a while now and when we met through Caroline, caroline Leon, for anyone else who's listening and I think we find like real instant connection and affinity through some common themes in our work and I would say that love of nature was one that was really key and really pertinent and really there from the beginning. And, yeah, I'm really interested to have you on today to talk a little bit more about how that connection to nature and particularly the cycles that we see all around us in nature, play into your work and how that, yeah, I've seen that become like a really central theme, like sort of core, I would say, to what you offer. So I wondered to start off with, could you tell us like, has that love of nature always been there for you, or has it been more something that's evolved to become part of your work in the way it is today?

03:51 - Rowena (Guest)

Yeah, thank you.

03:52

Thank you for asking and yeah, I would say I consider myself really fortunate that from throughout my life it's been something that's been nurtured in me, particularly by my parents, my dad, especially in his connection to the natural world, and yeah, that's always been present and I think, in a few different ways, and you start to notice now and now understand a lot more about the importance of it.

04:29

And it's not a nice thing to have, it's not an extra for I'll speak for myself but I believe this really, when we dig into it, is for everybody, it's a non-negotiable and for to really hone this and lean into this connection or this reconnection and really I would argue, not even necessarily connection at all actually like a real acknowledgement and being in the fact that we are part of our natural world.

05:02

So I would say like as a child and then as a young adult, absolutely like really present, especially through things like camping and walking, and if there's water nearby, there's a guarantee that I'll be in it, whatever temperature it is, and the real physicality of that, which we might come on to talk about, the importance of that as well and the challenges, in a great way, that that can present. And I think more and more as I explore it, like personally and in my work, really understanding the what we can learn, what we can learn and experience from this, from the depths of this connection. So, yeah, it felt like it's not an add on. It felt like, like as kind of no brainer, that it's essential to the ways in which I work as well as live.

05:58 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, I love that. You've mentioned that word connection several times as you've spoken and I really envisage this like deep relationship that's formed over time, and it reminds me of an Instagram post of yours I saw just yesterday and you were talking about a tree and like just saying, it was this really beautiful, old, grand looking tree and you were talking about the feelings that it evoked in you and like what it is. You know what the connection to this tree had brought and it's so true. I really think in today's society, it is so easy to become detached from the natural world around us, and yet I love what you've described and say about this rich and meaningful and fulfilling relationship that we can have.

06:58 - Rowena (Guest)

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I think Lucy Jones, who wrote losing Eden among her books, she poses this question like can we miss something that we might never have felt connected to, I'm afraid slightly there, and I would argue, yes, on some levels, absolutely we can. And yeah, I think, the more and more there's so many levels and so many layers to that reconnection, as you say, as we delve deeper and deeper into it, we can intellectualise it right, and we can talk about the scientific from a scientific level, the benefits, which is super fascinating. There's some amazing research going on. That really interests me and we can put beautiful poetry to it, like Mary Oliver is, like a I'm sure you know her work and lots of listeners and as a real anchor point for me we can look at through poetry.

08:04

And also sometimes we don't need to do any of those things. It's about the embodied experience of it and something really really simple, like standing with our back against the solidity of a tree and, without having to fully understand it on an intellectual level, just be in that connection, be in the presence of another living thing. And yeah, I think the more that we experience that, like anything else in life, the more that we experience the more that we may. Well then we notice the need for it as well. And what we can learn.

08:50 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, I really noticed that in myself actually as well.

08:54

So where I am up in Aberdeenshire, here the difference in the daylight hours between the winter and the summer is really quite dramatic, and last summer I've got in this really lovely supportive habit of going out for a walk first thing every morning, and over the winter, when it's, like you know, it's dark and cold and wet, it doesn't feel so practical and so I often I just don't make it out first thing in the morning and I notice when I then get into that mode of doing you're right off the start how it really sets the tone for my day, where it's so easy for my brain then to get caught up in this really busy place and like do, do, do.

09:40

It becomes harder even to take breaks throughout the rest of the day somehow. And yeah, contrast that to when I start my day in nature. I really notice how that tone of the day is so different. Like it going outside it just puts life in perspective for me somehow and gives me that time to like sift through what's important for me to get out of my day and and what isn't like. I really, yeah, I really see, yeah, I feel the evidence of it, but I really see the evidence of it on a very practical level as well.

10:17 - Rowena (Guest)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And you know, if I could respond to a couple of bits like within that, I think one of the pieces you said there around perspective is, yeah, is so important, isn't it? You know, like being in our natural world in whatever way that is, can support us in and, you know, can support us in in bringing things, in bringing new perspectives, bring in different perspectives, really like broadening, like it. You know it can be really supportive in what? Like defocalizing, you know, particularly if we've really really become absorbed or obsessed, or or, you know, really spiraling into something or defocalizing. You know the landscape can support us so much in that and, yeah, it's. It's what we don't want to do, I guess, is be in this.

11:07

This really important to me is that our relationship isn't a what can I get from nature? What's nature going to give to me? You know, what can I take from this relationship, like for it to really be a relationship of reciprocity and gratitude. You know, as Robin Walker Murrow would talk about, really appreciate her teachings that we, from this relationship with our natural world, we can, we can learn that and bring it into our, our human relationships right, and also real importance of having that in our relationship, like with the natural world. But I do think, yeah, like perspective and you know we could talk about, like the experience of or, for example, and how necessary that is for for people, and some beautiful research around that and and and yeah, you know, when we're really caught up, especially as, as you know, entrepreneurs, business owners or really anybody you know working, and particularly working in a way that is perhaps feeling challenging because we're challenging the norms and everything you know, the the time and time again, like the feelings that we can experience from being in our natural world, including different perspectives and including or and a reminder that we are part of something so much bigger than ourselves. Right, and not to negate our experiences and our feelings and our challenges, of course, but a reminder of what the bigger, bigger picture that we, that we sit within, think is really important.

12:41

And I, and if I might, is, if it's okay, just also to speak to that piece around going out into our natural world in the morning, for example and you know, something that feels really important to me is that we are, that this isn't.

12:56

We really recognize, like I recognize, my place of privilege, that I've been introduced to this from a young age, my place of privilege, that I have a garden, albeit a wee one, that I have a beautiful park near to me, you know, and we had a lot of talk around reconnection with nature during the pandemic, like absolutely so, but remembering that some people were sat in their gardens and some people were on the 15th floor of a block of flats, for example.

13:20

So Remembering and I think this is a political piece for me as well, in terms of, you know, like the work and and how we our relationship with land and and and Permissions or lack thereof, and also remembering that even in urban settings there are so many, you know, can we get down on our knees and be curious about the dandy lion that's growing out of the cracks, you know? Can we? Can we see the lady birds that's on that going up that tree? And, yeah, like even watching the clouds go past Out of our window or feeling the breeze, that there are so many little micro experiences that we could have as well.

14:00 - Debbie (Host)

Mmm, yeah, you bring to mind. I was at the the Kendall mountain film festival tour last Saturday evening and one of the film the short films was about a group of outdoor swimmers in Sheffield. He goes swimming and like, just, these are like public, basically like public places, public water, so a pond in a park, for example, and it was. It was brilliant. It was such a yeah, such a great reminder To me that these opportunities are often there if we, if we look for them and At the same time there's just as you say, there's a real privilege, I think, to have had that like the, the background In introducing us to nature and the appreciation of it and seeing it in a particular way.

14:48 - Rowena (Guest)

Yeah, and and then it shouldn't be a privilege.

14:51

Yeah, amazing work being done by incredible, you know, by incredible organizations to really support like, increasing, like Diversity and people are accessing on that you know, being in our natural world and and, yeah, beautiful work and soup the group here in Sheffield because this, you know, that's the city I live in at the moment and yeah, there is a real like we are accessing these places even though you know the law it says, says that we shouldn't, because it's a, it's a reclamation and and yeah, I jump in water here that I suppose we shouldn't and it's, yeah, it's a reclamation and and also it's a For me.

15:26

I will share that in parts as well my, the adventures that I have in the natural world, like from the, from this sort of somatic experiences, and also the yeah, they're kind of going against what we should be doing according to some law that some person, you know, in a place of privilege made up, that's a like, that's a beautiful place to like to, to, to play and to practice. You know what we might well then want to bring into our work right and an approaches that we might want to bring in the ways in which we work as well. Yeah, great opportunities for that.

16:02 - Debbie (Host)

I love that. Yes, that was I. That was the word Reclamation, that was like really pertinent in that that movie. So I wonder then, and on that like in, on like a practical level or maybe a tangible level, what? But what does it look like? Or what does it mean for you to incorporate nature and Teachings of nature in your work?

16:28 - Rowena (Guest)

Yeah, yeah, well, we only have a short podcast. I mean it's endless, right, but I'm gonna bring in like like a few pieces. I think there are the learnings that we can and including the metaphor that we can endlessly, you know, be be grateful for from our natural world, be that the importance, for example, from the tree metaphor, of the importance of rootedness and Annourishment and and solidity, along with, like, growth and and that sort of you know, air and Exploring, and that both of those things are, you know, are so important that we need both. I think there's there's so much in terms of, and something I work with a lot like in, in challenging the binary narratives that we have in our, in our culture, and you know, I think the natural world really presents us with so many opportunities to, you know, to, to explore that, yeah, you know, in support of that, and you know, a big part of my work as well, is, is, is somatic, is working in an embodied way. I know that's something that's really you know, that's really present for you in your work as a well, and I think you really can't be in the natural world without you know, without that being part of your you know, your experience.

17:48

I think it's, it's a Don't be extracted, but it's a, it's a gateway as well into how can I be in my body more, how can I explore this like so a lot of like practical, like small practices that I work with, with clients and you know, and in my group programs that are like On natural world, being supportive of coming back into our bodies more so like one really simple example of that would be working with our senses, which we can do that inside. We could do that right now, yeah, but of course, there's so much more and different stimulation outside in our natural world and and that being even just one simple practice, that coming into the supports us in coming into our bodies, in reconnecting with our bodies and dropping down From our head, especially when we're like, really a lot of the people I work with are very much, you know, mind, mind, mind, busy, busy, busy. How can we Drop down? And yeah, and so I find it, yeah, it's really supportive in, in supporting that work as well.

18:54 - Debbie (Host)

Lovely.

18:56 - Rowena (Guest)

And, of course, we will probably come on to cycles, because that's, like you know, the big one.

19:05 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, well, I noticed actually on that, you mentioned your group program, and I know that that's something that you start every year in what is autumn here in the UK and throughout the course of a year then you track our northern hemisphere seasons and align the teachings of the group with the seasons, and so I wonder if you can share a little bit more about that, because I'm so intrigued.

19:38 - Rowena (Guest)

Yeah, yeah, thank you. So, yeah, this is working with the sort of learnings from, from the different seasons, and then sort of the energy of seasons has has been part of my work for a number of years now, and so so my group program that is running at the moment Wild Woman Working really speaks to this piece like sort of undercutting my work, which is that I use the language like choose Wild Woman over Good Girl, and it really the aim is that we're really speaking to like a noticing and a and an awareness of, and a re reimagining and moving away from the conditioning of the good girl, conditioning that so many of us, that so many of us have. And I think, like working with seasons and the different energies of that can be really supportive in that. So, yeah, we start consciously in autumn and and sort of delving into first of all, like rest and restoration and letting go and pieces that you know we can, we can often either forget to do or, you know, feel that we don't have time to do or space to do, but is actually, you know absolutely, you know absolutely essential and essential in our work as well, right and yeah, and then we come through and December, january, being about really listening in, deepening and dreaming and, you know, connecting with our, with our inner knowing, our inner knowledge, and winter being a really powerful time to do that. And as we come out into spring, we see, like you know, we know we feel the energy rising and, yeah, in terms of sort of its time, of what if and possibilities and nascent growth. At the same time, it can be.

21:31

It's really helpful that we're not yet in summer. You know we're not yet in summer in that full openness and, you know, really bringing things to, to fruition and connectedness and, you know, and things like running and and, of course, we're working with the season on a, you know, on a physical level here in the in the northern hemisphere. But of course, we can apply this, you know, to so many other parts of our work. Right, like we at a project that is that is a week long or, you know, six months long, or just even one short action in our day, like really listening into and having marker points for the, the, the idea that there are different seasons to every project, right, and that each one is really valid.

22:16

So really supporting people to notice that we all have our you know, our patterns of our patterns of behaviors and things that we naturally and also learned will go into Mine. For example, I will just go straight into summer usually and then maybe a bit of autumn, probably skip through winter would be my learned pattern and then just try to be in an eternal Right. Oh, cycles of burnout. So really learning of course we can have our pieces that are more that we feel more aligned with naturally, but really learning how we can tune into through embodiment practices and connection to our natural world, as well as more what we might be conventional coaching practices that we can really honor the other parts of the cycle.

23:13 - Debbie (Host)

Oh, I love it. I love it so much and I love that you start with rest like that. That is the starting point of the course, because you, when you just the way you described it there, and giving time for time and space for that rooting in at the beginning and sharing the why, you know, why are, why are we doing that feeling into? Why are we doing this in the first place? When you describe it in that way, somehow that feels like the natural starting point. And yet I think that so often, like, the message we get from society these days is like we do all the work and then maybe you get the rest.

23:59 - Rowena (Guest)

Yeah, yeah, you earn the rest, absolutely, absolutely.

24:03

And I think both of us, debbie, in our work, my sense is that we're like, really challenging this, like this is patriarchal, western, linear, extractive way of working, and you know it doesn't work for our society and societies and it also doesn't work for us individually, right, you know to the do, do, do, do, do, go, go, go, go, go, extract, extract, extract, whether that be in our labor, in in others labor, you know, in our natural resources, from, you know, from from the world, it's, it's, it's not sustainable, right, and and and I think there is a reality that a lot of people are amazing, people that are doing incredible work to challenge these narratives and to challenge these structures.

24:53

Because of the ways in which we've been conditioned, we can, we can, forget to provide that for ourselves as well, right, so? So, yeah, absolutely. Part of that is how can we really embed it in the ways in which we, individually and collectively, are challenging that narrative? Yeah, the narrative that you have to earn rest, that you have to. You know that you are only a value according to your productivity.

25:24 - Debbie (Host)

And we're doing that right. Oh, it's so true. I just I finished reading Rest is Resistance a while ago, and there she talks about the other, talks about dream time, and to me, like within that space of rest and how it can really kick fire our imagination, and that you know the mindless dreaming that we have, and for me, that space is just, it's fun and enjoyable, and it's often where my best ideas come from as well. It's like when I don't try so hard and I don't put all the effort in and I don't force myself to, like, sit in front of a spreadsheet for hours and then it's like, oh, wow, suddenly something's just appeared right in front of me, you know seemingly without me having to do anything.

26:17 - Rowena (Guest)

Absolutely. Tisha Hersey's work is really powerful, isn't it? And you know, and actually a reminder that, like it remains radical to it remains resistance right, and I say that from my place of white Western privilege, you know, but it does, it does remain radical to do this. But, yeah, I love that what you said there and it's interesting, like one of my like core words this year is space. So, and it's for me personally, for me professionally, and it's interesting, it's coming up with a lot of the people and the lot of the women especially, but not exclusively, who I'm working with, who are doing amazing things in the world, really acknowledging the need to create those spaces, yeah, the spaces where we're not doing, doing, or the spaces where we're, we can work in a different way.

27:07

You know, I get a lot of my creative ideas when I'm in the shower, for example, because it's your moving, your body, there's, the water there's. You know we're dropping down, but, yeah, really creating the spaces for this and for without the pressure, just, yeah, seeing what comes. Yeah, really, really powerful. And you know, I'll speak for myself personally and it's some of the people I work with and you may as well, and you know, recently, at the age of 40, I had a late in life diagnosis of ADHD and you know one of the things I'm learning it's not exclusive for people in your divergent, but really learning the absolute necessity for creating space, really creating space, and that without that, the creativity that can be such a beautiful part of the way in which my brain works, it's stuck.

27:59

So yes really creating those spaces and and and really issuing the narrative that we have to earn it.

28:08 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, absolutely, and there's something in something that I came across a while ago that I find so supportive is the creative cycle as well, and like the knowledge that for something, for like a new offering or whatever, to come into the world, often it can take several of these cycles. And so you know, it necessitates space because we have, we might have to go through that cycle several times in order for the thing to like, flourish and emerge, and tying that back to nature. You just the way, if you plant a little seed in the earth, often, you know, for to grow into a tree, it takes several seasons worth of cycles, right, several cycles of seasons, you should say, to actually like bloom and flourish. Yeah, it's an inherent part of creativity when you consider it in that from that perspective.

29:06 - Rowena (Guest)

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And also that there is an absolute necessity for that mulchie, deep, dance art right which we're taught in the same way as you know, the, you know sort of toxic positivity narratives. You know, like you know, always be sunny and be growing and be happy. And you know we need not that the mulchie part will necessarily not be happy.

29:28

But we need the dark bits, we need the not knowing, we need the, the scary bits, we need the uncertain, the messy, yeah, and we also need the bits where the part of that cycle where we, where we're not creating externally, yeah, where we're not showing ourselves fully to the world you know it's like here at it. You know we need those dank, dark, restful pieces, the mulch, in order that the next part of the cycle can can come. And of course and we talk about group program, I already know which parts of you know my group program will continue next year and learn more, but also which parts I need to let go of. And you know and that is necessity right as well we need things need to die, things need to die, things need to end and we need to allow that to be part of our cycle in order to make space for the new, you know.

30:27 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. What a lovely like a lovely analogy to wrap up on, and you mentioned the group program there. I wonder if you could tell us where people could find out a little bit more about that and about the other spaces that you curate, both on and offline.

30:51 - Rowena (Guest)

Thank you so much for the opportunity to share that, debbie. I appreciate it. Yes, so you can find me at RowenaGarrettcom, which is hard to spell, but I'm sure you'll put a link in the description and then the same name on Instagram and on Facebook. And, yeah, you'll see there. I work one to one with supporting people, particularly people who are, you know, wanting to work in a really different way, whether that's running their own businesses or leading, but wanting to lead in an outside of exactly what we've been talking about. You know, this patriarchal, linear narrative.

31:29

And, yeah, my group program, wild Woman Working, we open again in October. We start in October but we will from September. We'll start taking interest in that and then, depending on when you're listening to this, in May, june. My shorter group program, burn Brightly, is with a tagline of tend, you're in a fire so that we can work and live in a way without burning out, really. So, and that's very much an exploration of, again, how do we stand in our passion and stand in our power and do and create in a way that is not that hyper, hyper doing, maybe hypermasculine way of doing it, that, yeah, so how can we resource and nourish ourselves and others while we're doing these incredible things in the world.

32:25 - Debbie (Host)

Amazing. I know that you have a very beautiful page on your website about Burn Brightly and I find it such an informative read. Like I know it's there to inform about the program, but even what you share there in the page I find like the awareness that it builds is really valuable in itself. So yeah, if anyone listening is intrigued in any way, I'd really encourage you to go and check it out.

32:52 - Rowena (Guest)

I so appreciate that feedback. Debbie, Thank you so much and yeah, yeah, it's a long. May we continue to learn right, Absolutely Be inspired and inspire, hopefully.

33:04 - Debbie (Host)

Absolutely, absolutely Well. Thank you so so much for your time, your energy, your passion and your creativity as well. This morning, it's been such a pleasure to spend some time together with you and, yeah, thank you so much for all you've shared.

33:19 - Rowena (Guest)

Thank you so much again for the opportunity. I love the work that you do, debbie, and yeah, I feel a real synergy with it and, yeah, I'm so grateful for this opportunity. Thank you.

33:29 - Debbie (Host)

Awesome, you're very welcome back anytime. Anytime, rueina, all right, take care.

33:34 - Rowena (Guest)

Bye.

33:34 - Debbie (Host)

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Beyond Business. If you've loved what you've heard, I would be incredibly grateful if you could raise and review the podcast so that together we can create a global ecosystem of change makers, pioneering business as a force for guilt. Until then, I look forward to speaking to you in the next episode.

Debbie Lee
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