Beyond Business Podcast Ep 14

Written By Debbie Lee

Episode 14 Books, Business & Motherhood with Saveria Mezzana

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EPISODE SUMMARY

Join me as I welcome Saveria Mezzana of Nesting Mums to the podcast to talk about the multifaceted journey of motherhood and entrepreneurship. Saveria is a book, business, and life doula and here shares her expertise in guiding women through the entwining paths of writing, business, and the experience of raising a family. We touch on some of the challenges that come with this and how they can intertwine with the creative process and business endeavors.

We discuss the notion of work-life integration as an alternative to work-life balance, and how personal cycles, parenting, and even our relationship with money can deeply affect our business. Saveria shares her own journey in trying to niche and how she now embraces the idea that being multi-passionate and multi-skilled is not only acceptable but advantageous. As part of this we talk about how motherhood and entrepreneurship can enrich our interests and expertise beyond a singular niche.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

00:03 - Debbie (Host)

Welcome to Beyond Business the podcast, the show for impact-driven egopreneurs who want to be part of a bigger change and make a difference that reaches beyond your business alone. This week on the podcast, I'm delighted to welcome Saveria Mazzana. Saveria is a book, business and life dealer. I'm Saveria Mazzana. Saveria is a book, business and life doula. She's the owner of Nesting Mums, where she supports women with the blend of writing, business and motherhood. She helps mums and their families to overcome trauma, anxiety, stress, overwhelm and writing blocks, and we dive into all of that and more on the conversation today. So I hope you enjoy. All right, we are good to go. I was going to say a very warm welcome to the podcast, but I'm going to say a very warm welcome back to the podcast. It's so, so lovely to have you here again.

01:01 - Saveria (Guest)

Oh, thank you, so nice to be here again.

01:04 - Debbie (Host)

Oh, thank you so nice to be here again. I was thinking the last time we did a podcast interview we talked about sacred money, archetypes, and I was just saying to you before this is, I think that will be one to bring back from the archives because I think, looking back, it actually ties in really nicely with lots of things we're we're going to talk about today yeah um. So I wonder, to start off with how, how are you arriving with us today?

01:36 - Saveria (Guest)

I am arriving calm as well as very excited. Um, I have a big trip going to France tomorrow and it's in the mix of it all, but it's so perfect because we're going to talk about nesting mums and it is about that. It's also about being the daughter of a mum. It's not just about being a mum. So, yeah, there is that, and then there is this beautiful interview that I was really looking forward to and it's here. So, yeah, calm and excited, if that's possible amazing.

02:12 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, I imagine the trip, I imagine there's a lot of like a lot going on behind the scenes. Yeah, yeah, that like the calm mellowness really comes across. I can feel it infiltrating me as well.

02:27 - Saveria (Guest)

Yes, it was my intention. It's the intention that I set at the new moon to be calm and serene and there was another word I can't remember now composed, I guess, throughout this moon cycle, so that I can do everything that I need to do before I go away.

02:50 - Debbie (Host)

I love it. I love it. Yeah, I know that. Um, it's funny actually, I've been speaking with quite a few guests recently about this um, the idea of, like cyclical living and cyclical working, and I know that that's another big part of both how you work and how you live as well.

03:05 - Saveria (Guest)

And, yeah, it's awesome to yeah, just to mention that the moon is another way that we can practice yeah, yeah, it was all about the menstrual cycle for many years and now, because of the time that I'm in in my life and the pre-menopausal time, I am now focusing more on the moon and I'm reading a book called Lunar Abundance, and I think that's going to be really helpful as well in this transition.

03:37 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah.

03:38

I like it, I know I find it. So I find it so fascinating to study the moon from this different perspective because for me, with my earth sciences background, you know, I did a lot of like studying the physics and the composition of the moon and you know, when I reflect back, even then I had this real appreciation for how the moon, this tiny little sliver that we see up in the sky, influences the tides and, um yeah, influences so much about how our weather systems and all of that that we don't comprehend. So it's actually not that big a leap for me to then think that you know how we we feel and our energy levels can also be influenced by the moon as well.

04:27 - Saveria (Guest)

Yeah, and many cultures still garden by the moon and we used to, like the whole world used to, so clearly we understood that the moon had an influence. There were times to harvest, there were times that were more appropriate, or more, yeah, more abundant, hopefully uh, to plant seeds, and I mean, I don't know much about that bit, but I know that it was a thing. So, yeah, why not us? And is it really a coincidence that our cycles are around 28, 29 days, just like the moon cycle? I don't think so who knows?

05:03 - Debbie (Host)

I know, you're the scientist, you tell me it's like I well, I love the element of like mystery and magic to it as well. Like, for me, there's, you know, my, my. The rational part of me wants to like, analyze it all and see if there's a truth in it. And then the other part of me is like, oh, like, I just like the magic of it as well, I was doing a spoil that.

05:27 - Saveria (Guest)

Yes, let's not dig too deep.

05:29 - Debbie (Host)

But like, what an awesome jumping off point for the conversation today.

05:33

Because so yeah, you run your business under the name Nesting Mums and I know we've known each other for several years now actually, and it's been such a pleasure for me to witness how your work has grown and evolved and really gone through several cycles of its own over the time that we have known each other. So I wonder, to start off with like could you give us a bit of a flavor of how you would describe what you do under the umbrella of Nesting Mums and what it is? What it's all?

06:15 - Saveria (Guest)

about. So Nesting Mums was actually first born in 2012, when I was a hidden birthing teacher and a birth doula and a postnatal doula. Um, it was a friend who came up with the idea when we passed a shop and there was some little nesting rabbits not even dolls and she said what about nesting mum? Oh yes, so that's where it first came about and I loved it and it. And when it was time to transition to something else around 2017-18, I had so much trouble letting it go, because I love the name, I love the concept, I love the logo, I loved everything about it, but still I knew that I had to let go of the hippo bird and the birth do line, and so I had to change the name. I had to change something and and so I did. But but around nine months ago, the name started calling me back like you need to use me again. You need to. You need to look it up again and see if it's available as a url. And so I did, and it was, and I bought it again, although I didn't buy the original one because that was a thousand pounds dot, co, dot, uk. So I did, and it was, and I bought it again, although I didn't buy the original one because that was a thousand pounds. So I just bought uk and com and I didn't know why. So I just bought them and I thought, just in case.

07:36

Later down the line I get other messages about this and I know for sure that I need to go back to it. Because why would I go back to it? And I know for sure that I need to go back to it because why would I go back to it? I don't really want to do hypnobasic anymore, even though I still have a couple of clients here and there. Over the years, even though I stopped officially, I got referrals, so I never really stopped.

07:56

And then the last three months it was stronger and stronger. Just have to use the synonyms again. That's it. And I didn't believe it and I waited so long. In the end it was just too strong. So I thought, okay, I'm going to move everything. And because of the 1st of April your new, well, 6th of April, but new, new financial year and everything I thought, right, that's it. My previous business is now officially dead and Nesting Moms is officially back and with an updated logo.

08:34

So, yeah, no, that's not about it, sorry, it is a whole new concept, and I suddenly have a vision of what Nesting Moms was now about, and it explains the length of time it's taken me, from that first moment where the just the name was coming back to me and I needed to look up the URL, to now, and this vision is that it encompasses everything I've ever done, and it's and it's all about my passion for continuity of care, which I already had when I was first born, as it were. So, from baby to mother to beyond the postnatal period, I always loved being there for the mums, and then, when I became a hypnotherapist and a Reiki practitioner, that was also part of the continuity of care beyond the first few years with the child, and then sometimes I help the child as well. So already so that seed was planted then and it's still very much present. I love continuity of care.

09:40

I love helping people for many years and in depth, with whatever they're going through, and I've equipped myself over the years with different tools, different techniques, different modalities and as I evolved as a mum, of course I could help more and more people at different stages of their lives and their children's lives. And so here we are, and their children's mouths. And so here we are, um, and in the midst of all that, because I was an editor and proofreader, um, that was my first job really after university and I became a book do like in 2018. I also helped women birth their books and birth their businesses as well, because I became a business coach and a money coach as you mentioned sacred money, archetypes and so suddenly I find myself doing all these things, being able to help women with all these things, but being told but you've got to niche down, but you can't do everything and be everything. If you're everything and try to help everyone, you help no one.

10:41 - Debbie (Host)

And now I know it's a lie and we're going to talk about that, right yeah, oh, I love it and like I love this realization that you've come to where you are again. It sounds like you're really embracing all of the the strings of your bow like when I, you know, like having a step back.

11:06

When I look at the range of your qualifications and experience and your skill set, like, on the one hand, it's really, really diverse. And yet, as a mum myself, I've noticed how the support that I need has evolved with my kids, as my kids become older and things in the dynamic of our family life changes, and so I love that you have this ready-made toolkit almost to draw upon and it's like I know we have talked a lot before about the idea of transition and transitioning between different phases and I feel like, since I've become a mum, almost, I'm in this constant transition and I know that, like, various of your modalities have been really, really supportive and useful at various points of my own journey.

12:09

So I love it and I love the idea of, like you, being able to establish a longer lasting relationship with the mum and like really getting it in a way that other people might not be able to if they've only known that person for a short time.

12:31 - Saveria (Guest)

Yeah, it seems magical one really as we've talked about this before as well, is that we know, as women especially, that everything is related, everything. So if you work only on one bit, if I was only a business coach and didn't know anything about life, for example, I would only tackle one aspect of that person, my client's life, just business. And yet we know that business is affected by her cycles, by her relationship with money, by. If she wants to write a book, what is she going to do first? Is she going to, like, reduce her hours in business to write her book, or is she going to, is she going to change her business, because now her book is enlightening her in some ways and then she needs to change her business.

13:18

So many things, and the children, of course. Like we don't have that much time to write or do our businesses so, and what's going on with the child? Is that, what's going on with the child? Well, I can help you with that. I can help you with my perspective because of my experience with my own children, but also my other clients experiences. So everything is related. So it just doesn't make sense. I want to say anymore, to finish down, anymore, because this is a message to the masculine way of doing things like we can't do it like this anymore, and what it brings to mind for me is I know the the term work-life balance.

14:00 - Debbie (Host)

I think that's a term that, like, is being more widely phased out now, because we're slowly realizing that maybe even especially since lockdown and, like you know, so many more people working from home, I think there's this growing awareness that you work and life just don't fit into these separate boxes.

14:21

I mean that's so much exacerbated by being a man, being an entrepreneur as well and working from home also. Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly because, well, this is why flexibility is like deemed as such a good thing, isn't it? You can work at any hours and yet at the same time, it then like blurs those boundaries. Yeah, fine, yeah, but yeah, I'm really intrigued as to what you said there about niching and like associating it with a I guess this I'm going to use the word masculine type energy, but like this desire to compartmentalize and simplify, because I think that that is a lot of the marketing advice out there for business owners, for solopreneurs, for coaches, in particular.

15:14

The idea that if you help everybody, then you help no one. And so there's this real driver to niche down and define one person, one problem and how you will help solve that. And I really get that. I get the idea of like positioning your expertise. I like it personally. I like it because it simplifies things in my own mind, the idea that I can talk to one person and at the same time, I really recognize so many of the struggles that go with that. Because for many of us myself, I was including myself we're like multi-passionate and multi-skilled. So yeah, I'm just curious, because it sounds like you're sort of like going against the grain in some way all right.

16:13 - Saveria (Guest)

Well, so I have tried both ways, and I've tried both ways many times as well. So I, yes, I have, have I always been multi-passionate? I don't know. It really became apparent to me anyway, since starting my business, I suppose, because even though I was focusing on birthing, it quickly became postnatal as well. And then hypnosis for everything, not just for birthing well, and then hypnosis for oh, everything, not just for birthing. And then yeah, and then, and then and then. So really, it's entrepreneurship. And, I suppose, becoming a mum in 2008. So by 2012, I became a mum for the second time, and I had done hypnobirthing for my own benefit as well as well, if I'm learning it for myself and I can turn it into a business, then why not? If we go back to sacred money, archetypes, that's the ruler in me that goes you know what? I'm just going to make the most of this. Um and yeah, and turn it into a business. And so I did. Um, so yeah, quickly became apparent that I wanted to do more than that. And you know what? You know why? Because hypnobirthing women are quickly, very shortly after, they need more help and more varied help than they ever did before.

17:35

There are more complexities once you become a mum and all the generational stuff maybe comes through suddenly. I know when you were not aware of, potentially not aware of the, you know the wounding from previous generations and I was quite aware, aware of all that myself. But still I was very confused for a few months, like does my mom think my baby is me? Like if she. I asked her what, she said no, no, no, I'm very clear. She's my granddaughter, she's not my daughter. But for me, like this is me, is this me? Yeah, there was. It was very weird.

18:17

I don't know if I'm the only mum who went through that phase, but it I think I was melting. My daughter and I were melting together and all the things that I used to feel I thought maybe she was feeling as well and all the things that I felt as a baby that came back to me as well, or as a young girl. And I realized that I did not make that up and there's no way I can do to my child what my parents did to me or did not do to me with me. And so, yeah it, it was a bit of a nesting mums moment which doll is which and where does it go? What does it fit?

18:55

Um, but to go back to niching down, yeah, so that is why I just could, because it's too many dimensions that suddenly come into your life as a mum and because that was part of my business and, yeah, it just kept growing, to the point that I nesting moms then was saying to me well, we can't, you're doing too many things. Now doesn't make sense anymore. Nesting moms, you don't just do even birthing in you and so try to do just hypnotherapy. But if even with that like surely a need to niche down, and so I had a program called freedom from food for mums. But I was not happy with just one thing I didn't want to talk about food and not dieting, and well, it's a positive body image forever in a day, because I had suffered so much with that, I don't want to talk about that.

19:46

And so it was always this conflict between what I should do niche down, focus on just one thing the boredom of it, the lack of ideas, potentially of talking about it on social media, because I keep thinking that without social media it would not have been such a big problem, possibly, but we will live in the world of, in a world where social media is our very present, and it's one other aspect where you get asked to niche down. Now you can't talk about everything on your account. How are people going to know what you do, what you do? So I didn't want to do that, and so then I went back to a broader thing and so, and then I changed my url to just my name, and then my name became a problem, and so I want to do that, and so then I went back to a broader thing, and so then I changed my URL to just my name, and then my name became a problem, and so I had to change that again.

20:34

And so try to finish down and have this. Really I guess it's a dopamine hit, like I've got it. Now I know who I'm going to focus on, and this is my one and only message. And this is going to focus on, and this is my one and only message, and this is going to assure success. Yes, and then not necessarily or only for a while, because then I would start going never I miss this and I miss that, and I can also do this, and what about all the other people that I can help? Not fair, and so try to widen again, but then being called back by you're doing too much, stop it and, like you said earlier, like it is easier for your mind, for sure, to simplify and to just do one thing. But yeah, I've had enough not simplifying anymore. I am not niching that anymore. I do everything.

21:27 - Debbie (Host)

I love, I love, like how you describe it because, yeah, to me I see this almost like a spiral of like it's. You know, you've been where, like the spiral that starts off really wide and like, seemingly, you go from one side of the spiral to the other and it feels like a really long distance, but then, as you continue, you like you know, this spiral becomes smaller and smaller and it sounds like now you've really got to that bottom point where, like, the theme is supporting mums through that journey, but like within that, it's like a cup holding so many different aspects of motherhood and business and life in general. Yes, I love it and still writing.

22:13 - Saveria (Guest)

If they want to write like, that's still there, yeah yeah, so that's what I was going to say next.

22:18 - Debbie (Host)

Actually, like I know, writing has also been a constant theme for you throughout all of this, and I wonder how how writing has supported you in this evolution comes to mind my reams and reams and reams of journals about business.

22:39 - Saveria (Guest)

Oh, this, this one I'm gonna do now, this one I'm gonna do now. No, they say xyz, I must do xyz. But on and on and on and on. Writing has been in my life since I was about eight and I wrote my first little book, the white horse. It was called. It's only eight pages, but, yeah, it was cute, with a horrible illustration. But so, yeah, I started writing very young and I've never really stopped, journaled a lot and wrote a children's novel which might see the light of day this year, who knows? So next year. Finally, after 20 odd years, uh, who knows?

23:21

Um, I've written poems as well, and what I've been going through with my mum, I wrote about that. Maybe it was a cathartic thing, you know, therapeutic way of dealing with it, but also I just, I just had to. It was just like it was pouring through me every day another poem, another poem, another poem, and this aspect and that aspect and and very much the Nasty Mumums theme was running through all of that as well, because of the generation and being caught between two generations and two countries having to. Yeah, for those who don't know, haven't picked up on the accent, yet I am French and my mum still lives in France. I'm in the UK and it's a doable journey in a day, but it's not easy. And then having two children at home, one who's 11, one who's 15, thankfully they're a bit older now, but if it had been a few years ago I don't know what we would have done. So all of that means that I have written about what it's like to be a nesting mum. I realized after a while hey, my mum, me, my children and so on, and helping others write their books for the same, for a similar reason, like as a therapeutic process, to write their memoirs or to write a memoir about, um, so part memoir, part guide.

24:56

Often this is what my clients write, um, because, again, you can't separate your business and your philosophy from yourself. So there was, I was always. I've always been fascinated by autobiographies and memoirs. New, new stories, people's stories. That's what I love, and so I love helping women get that story out. And I know it's difficult because you do relive those moments and you do in some way re-traumatize yourself. So, even if the writing helps, it's good to have support for those moments where you go oh gosh, it's all coming back now. What do I do with it? And should that go in the book and should this go in the book? And have I answered your question? Writing, writing, yes, I'm still writing and yes, I have others right because, yeah, for that, for that reason.

25:50 - Debbie (Host)

I think that.

25:51

So, yes, you answered the question, and I think that the thing that I take from it is and like both from what you've described and from my own experience and I wonder if this is a helpful concept for people listening who might find themselves in that same situation where you're feeling like, oh, I need to have everything figured out, I need to have everything tidy and neat and in one nice simple sentence before I get going, whereas for me, I find that one of the skills that I've had to develop in being a business owner is getting comfortable in the discomfort, or like getting comfortable in the messiness the imperfect messiness of it somehow, and really recognizing that, even if I don't have it all figured out or not to the extent I want, if I just do something, and that's something, you know, it could be many different things, like having a conversation with somebody, like chatting to a client about some ideas, or, as you say, writing, just writing in my own journal, or writing for the purpose of a blog or a book or a social media post or something, but just doing something to like get the ideas going and flowing and I find myself that it's really through, like sharing my thoughts and ideas and all that.

27:26

that clarity does pop out at some point. Yeah, not always in the way we expect it will no it's this idea of like, rather than having everything polished and then taking action, it's like using the journey as as part of the process to clarity. So I wonder, to um wrap us up, then, if you could tell us a little bit more about where people can find you online, um, and find out more about you and nesting mums so I'm on, I'm at nestingmumsuk and at nestingmums, on instagram and on facebook same handle for both.

28:14 - Saveria (Guest)

Um, and I want to add one little thing, which is energetics, the energetics of business in terms of it's not about what you do, it's not about how you niche down or don't niche down, or you know. It's about being really clear, because you're talking about clarity through writing. That's what I wanted to speak about, um, clarity through writing. It's being clear on who you want to help, maybe why as well. But why is this a good time, right now and this? And you can't if you only do one thing, I really feel if you only do one thing, you're not helping the people who need you right now, and so right now, somebody might need all my services.

28:58

It's happened a few times in the last six months where I just say universe, send me the person who needs me right now, and you know what I do and you know what they need. So just match us up and lo and behold. It's happened three times now. The person needs all my, most of my services and I just can't like the first thing that happened. I could not believe it within 24 hours. Um, so if you only do one thing and that person doesn't need you for that one thing. They'll find somebody else if, but if you? I don't know if it makes, it makes sense, but really, when they say that you have to be an energetic match for what you want, it's true, and it doesn't have to be just one thing. It can be for the person who needs several of your services.

29:47 - Debbie (Host)

I think that's my takeaway for today I love that and I really feel that from you like to me the you're a really solid, reliable, like, caring, empathetic presence. I find you know we've worked together in lots of different ways and I've always got that from you it's funny. It's like that's how I would define you, as opposed to like all the different things that you do. There's like that thread of your own energetics in it too. So, yeah, I really, I really get that and it really comes across.

30:22 - Saveria (Guest)

Oh, thank you, you are. Yeah, it's who you are. It's not just, or it's not even at all what you do.

30:35 - Debbie (Host)

It's who you want to help. I love it. I love it. What a note to end on. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Beyond Business. If you've loved what you've heard, I would be incredibly grateful if you could rate and review the podcast so that together we can create a global ecosystem of change makers, pioneering business as a force for good. Until then, I look forward to speaking to you in the next episode.

Debbie Lee
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