Beyond Business Podcast Ep 7

Written By Debbie Lee

Episode 7

From Slow Fashion to Slow Business with Saskia de Feijter

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EPISODE SUMMARY

Join me this week as I chat with Saskia de Feijter, founder of Ja-Wol. Saskia helps established and emerging small businesses in slow fashion shape their brand, organise and plan their work and create strategies around their needs. So they can offer a solid alternative to fast fashion to crafters and creatives alike. On the episode she shares her own journey that has centred around slow fashion, and crafting a purposeful and profitable business that also supports other crafters and makers to do the same.

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If you would like to find out more about Saskia and her work at Ja-Wol you can connect with her in the following places:

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

Debbie: [00:00:00] Welcome to Beyond Business, the podcast, the show for impact driven e coupreneurs who want to be part of a bigger change and make a difference that reaches beyond your business alone. This week, I'm joined by Saskia De Veeder of Yawul. Saskia helps established and emerging small businesses in slow fashion to shape their brand, organize and plan their work and create.

Sustainable strategies around their own business needs. In the episode, we delve into Saskia's own journey in slow fashion and how it led her to the world of slow business that she now advocates and supports others to create for themselves. We are on air! Woohoo! Good morning, Saskia. It is so lovely to see your smiley, happy face

Saskia: today.

Good morning. I'm smiling, but I'm also quite tired because I just got back from a [00:01:00] workout and it was, phew, it was heavy, but I'm ready. to get going and have a nice little sitting down chat with you.

Debbie: Amazing, amazing. Is this something that you do every morning or was that a?

Saskia: I try to walk for at least 30 minutes every morning unless I do weightlifting or boxing or other.

Debbie: exercises. Awesome. What

Saskia: a way to start the day. Ah, it was too early. It was eight o'clock. I'm not doing that again.

Debbie: Well, I really appreciate you making the effort to be here after that. It's really, I've been so looking forward to talking and finding out more about you and sharing your work far and wide.

Saskia: Yeah, thanks for inviting me. I'm excited.

Debbie: I have to say, I have, I didn't sleep very well last night. I don't know. I, it's the full moon at the minute

Saskia: here and I don't know. Yeah. Listen, I didn't sleep very well. The whole family didn't sleep very well. Then I was [00:02:00] texting my friend. She didn't sleep very well.

And now you're telling me you didn't. So I was thinking this morning that what if at one day everybody slept really. badly. What would do, what would that do to the energy in the world? Okay, so that is where my mind goes sometimes. This is how people get snowy. There's something in the air.

Debbie: I really do. I don't, I don't meticulously track them in, I have to say, but when I hear things like this, I'm like, Oh wow, there's really something in that.

I know. Yeah. But I've had a lovely, delicious cup of coffee. And I'm like feeding off your, your natural energy as well. So yeah, I'm feeling raring to go. Cool. Nice. I guess yeah, our theme today is all around slowness and I guess Your business really centres around slow fashion [00:03:00] in particular. And so I was wondering if we could start right there.

If you could tell us a little bit more about what slow fashion is and But why we need it so badly. Yes,

Saskia: well, I'll try to keep this simple. Because it really is simple. But sometimes I forget that not everybody knows about it. Because I'm so in the thick of it. That is such a big part of my life that I forget that some people don't even know what's going on.

Slow fashion is the opposite of fast fashion, and fast fashion is a term we generally use for the fashion industry that's producing new collections at such a fast rate that, and in such terrible, horrible conditions, that it really hurts our planet and the [00:04:00] people. The fashion industry is one of the worst industries when it comes to doing damage to the environment people in how, I think everybody must have heard about how some people on the how some people work under terrible conditions and, There is no need for the amount of garments that are being produced.

In fact there is such a huge waste pile that it's a, it's a, it's, it's an immense problem. And. I've always loved fashion. I actually went to art school and I wanted to become a fashion designer. For some reason, for clear reasons I actually ended up doing photography because I didn't like my teachers.

If you're talking about something so deep and [00:05:00] then you say, well, I Didn't become a fashion designer because I didn't like my teachers, but I really didn't and I was sensitive that way. And so I ended up doing photography, but fashion was a big part of my life from as early on as I can remember, resisting.

my mother's idea of what fashion is because she tried to dress me and my sister like princesses. We have two years in between us, but we needed to look the same and posh with Quilts and we're Dutch and and it was a whole thing. So I resisted my mom's fashion and on at an early age, I started to think about what I did like, and then I made my own clothes.

I redid my own clothes. And so, I'm gonna have a thinking pause here because I'm gonna not go into this too far. And so I made [00:06:00] my own clothes and I redid my own clothes and ended up still being somebody that is connected to fashion because it's, it's an integral part of who I am. So when I found out that the industry is so horrible.

I naturally wanted to, to do something about it. There was another kind of timeline in my life that brought me there through a different route because I've always loved doing crafts needle crafts, textile crafts. My grandmother taught me and I learned in school and that was. Just one of those things.

Some people have that with gardening or cooking. It was just my thing and I could always lose myself in it. It would always bring me calm and joy. And of course now we know. And if you don't, I'll tell you now that it's [00:07:00] very healing to do crafts. And so that was also a route that I was on and all of that together brought me where I am now, but just going back to fast fashion and then what slow fashion is.

Slow fashion is kind of the movement that goes against fast fashion. It, the word is already quite self explanatory. But it's about, it's not an industry necessarily. It's more of a way of life where you decide I want to maybe make some of my clothes or use them for a longer period of time. Start mending them instead of throwing them out and buying something else.

just take the effort of sewing on a button instead of buying a new thing. And so it's about how you look at what you're wearing and making conscious decisions that make your [00:08:00] wardrobe last longer and has less effects on the environment and the world. And that, for me, is actually really fun

Debbie: to do.

Yeah, not only, like, I think the thing that stands out to me from that is that it's not, it's not just a fashion choice. It's not about the clothes you wear, in fact, in many ways, it's, that's only a very small part of it. It's really a form of activism.

Saskia: Absolutely. Yes, craftivism, activism. Yes, but it could, it could quite easily flip to the other direction where we think of people that of course I'm wearing dungarees now, so I'm not making much of a point, but nobody's seeing that.

It could flip into the direction where we think of people in, in Holland. We we have words for that. Let me see if I can translate it [00:09:00] literally, like goat woolen sock type of people. Like it's really crusty. It is uber natural kind of organic and it is all of that, but it could also be, and I think that is really important to get that message across, that fashion can also blend in with your values and you can still look.

Really cool. And do work around what your actual style is and then and combine the two. There's no reason why

Debbie: that couldn't be. Yeah, I really, that's so interesting because I, we were just talking before this about your website. And I was, I was telling you how, to me, when I go there and see. your photographs and images, and you're even here seeing you on camera this morning.

You have, you [00:10:00] embody such a unique style and such a unique brand of Saskia, like it's not as, you know, part of it's about your business, but like a lot of it is, I can really see how it's founded on you. Yeah. And Yeah, hearing you say that, it leads me to think that fashion really is a form of self expression.

And so when you're really creating that for yourself, it's bringing out that fun, playful, creative element of you. Yes,

Saskia: that's a choice. Definitely. Yes. Yes. And I felt the need to to start a community around it because there's so many moving parts to it. There's the what is your shape? What looks good on you?

What do you feel good in? What do you actually need? Because if you work from home, you probably won't. need a lot of gowns. And then there's learning all the different [00:11:00] crafts. Do you want to actually make everything or do you want to swap? It's not all about making, it's about making conscious choices and being a little bit more slow and taking the time and reflecting.

And when you do make your own wardrobe or a whole when you do make your own wardrobe or a lot of it, you'll make different decisions because you'll think, okay, so if I make these pair of, this pair of trousers, these, these pair of trousers in this color, will it match with the other things that I've made?

So you, you think differently and there's a whole journey. That you can what's the verb?

Debbie: Like mix and, I, I, I, like mix and match, that's where you're

Saskia: Yeah, yeah, there's, it's actually it's work, but it's fun work [00:12:00] to figure out what your wardrobe can look like and how you can get to that point of what are your goals, your intentions, and how will you because I always It's kind of a three step thing.

You look at yourself, you look at no, wait, I say this wrong. Cut. So it's always about looking at yourself, but not only from the outside, but from the inside. Yes. So what makes you feel

Debbie: good? Yes, yes. Ah, yeah, I really get this. So it reminds me, at the start of last year, I decided that I wanted to decorate the inside of our house.

Because we, we moved in and we painted all the walls white and put some photos up and it had stayed that way for several years. And I got this interior design book that was, you know, I don't know, 100, 200 pages long. And I took one thing from it [00:13:00] that really stayed with me. And it said that when you're choosing the colors for your house, Start by looking in your wardrobe.

Saskia: I think I have that book.

Debbie: Yeah. And it said, you know, go in there and like pick out the things. That when you wear them, you feel like yourself. And so, I'd never, I'd never really paid attention to that before. And yet, now, when I walk in my hallway, I feel like myself. Because I have chosen colors that to me represent the Scottish outdoors around where I live, which is, that is where I feel most like myself.

And it's like, I brought that into my house, but somehow it was there in my wardrobe all along. It was really, yeah, I find it really amazing. And I will

Saskia: make this even a little bit weirder. So this happened to me, [00:14:00] and it's a nice bridge into the business part of things. Because I did the same thing decorating my house and picking out colors.

And I didn't really consciously think about it. It was all coming from my heart and what I love. And so on my walls here, I have a blush pink. I have kind of bright yellow. linen curtains and I have a teal for the people that like it, air cooled daybed behind me. And these three colors are actually also my brand colors.

That was just, there was this moment where I'm in this room and I'm like, wait a second. And that is. That is what I teach like this so funny because for me it comes naturally, but I think it's so important [00:15:00] to figure out who you are, what your identity is, which is a hard thing to do. I know most of us take a whole life to figure it out, but parts of it and then connecting that to your business.

And not just literally in color, but also what your values are and what's important to you and your needs. What do you, is it even, I need to do my exercises in the morning because I cannot get off the couch at night. I'm too tired. So they need to be in the morning, which means that my business can only start around noon.

So I do. I do exercise and craft and laundry in the morning and then from noon onwards is when I work. Amazing.

Debbie: I love that. What an unconventional approach as well, you know, that feels like a form of activism in itself.

Saskia: Yeah, I'm such a punk at heart still, like I'm [00:16:00] 48 now, but I used to be a lot more like active, but the kind of the, the heart of that is still in me and I'm always thinking, okay, how can I make this work for me?

And also run a business and have a good health. and a family that feels like I'm there and they need me. And it's, it's a lot of that is a privileged situation where we, there's two of us and the other person also has a job and I'm aware of that. But if you have that in place it's so important.

And I think. Some people don't realise that they can shape their business around their needs. Yeah. You can make decisions. I think

Debbie: especially if you have, because I, I know of a lot of [00:17:00] like a lot of my business colleagues have come from a more structured, work set up. Most, I don't know, I, most people I know weren't entrepreneurs to begin, well, I don't know, I think you're always an entrepreneur at heart.

At heart, yes. You know, they didn't always earn a living as an entrepreneur. They worked in a more structured setting and there's something about that. And I guess just our society in general, like that nine to five routine becomes, you know, even if that's not what you have to structure your day around, it somehow becomes.

ingrained.

Saskia: But don't get me wrong. I have a lot of structure in my days. Yes. It's just not nine to five. It's just not nine to five. So I found a structure that works for me and, and I really need that structure. I am an avid bullet journalist. And that is my most important tool and to give me structure and [00:18:00] insights and reflections and I have weekly structures, monthly structures but I just mold molded it.

Wait, let me start again. I just molded them into what works for me, but that needs

what it is that you actually need. And so that's what I do now with small businesses in the slow fashion industry. Where everything comes together my passion for making a change, my passion for fashion, which sounds like a commercial, my passion for fashion and also I get really frustrated that these small businesses have such a hard time sustaining their business because.

Most of them, I mean, don't have any numbers, but most of them start their business from a passion. They start crafting, they fall in love [00:19:00] with the magic and they think, I wish I could do this every day. And then they start their business, but they don't have any formal business education. They basically just copy everybody on Instagram, what they're doing, the ones that look good.

And they're just doing that. I know how that might sound disrespectful, but I'm always leaning on the fact that I'm Dutch. I'm just very direct. I don't, I don't mean it disrespectful. It's just what happens. And what I've seen over the last 20 years happened so much is that there's this huge, there's this huge passion and then they go.

Start the business. They're excited and that energy is important. And then they get their business. But after a while, they don't have structures in place. They don't actually really know what marketing is or what [00:20:00] branding is or how to sell other than. showing their stuff on an Instagram feed. And that's when people start to burn out and just feel like they're running this treadmill and they're stuck in a swamp and they have these creative ideas, but no time to, to work with them.

And so that is why I build a program around that, where I help them to figure out who they are, what they need. then connect that to building a business that works for them organize it, and then looking at their branding, marketing, and selling, and not using those kind of words, because that is usually very icky for creative people.

But it's hard to talk about those kinds of things without using the words, but yeah, that's what I try to do, make it a little bit more accessible.

Debbie: Yeah, I love it. And I love as well, like you have [00:21:00] such a wealth of experience, like very personal experience with all of this to draw on, like you have such an interesting and varied and like really passion driven career history.

Yeah. And I imagine like at the same time have like experienced many of these struggles and challenges and difficulties. yourself and really forged your own path through them and like find your way and yeah it's not something like in mainstream business I think the creative industry is quite often left out or set aside and like to me the really unique thing about any creative business is that it takes a lot of time like making things takes time and so Getting the financial reward just for that is quite, it's, it's hard.

And so I know a big part of what you do is [00:22:00] helping people and diversify.

Saskia: Yeah. Yeah. And they're not educated. I remember when I was in art school at 17, one of my biggest frustrations already was how do we not get taught how to run a business? Cause artists are business owners. It's not like you, you finish art school and then they just push you into the world.

And you're not going to get an agent right away. Nobody's going to do that work for you because you can't afford to pay another person to do it for you. So you have to do it yourself first. I could not understand why. Arts or crafts for that matter and business are such clashing kind of energies for lack of a better word.

But they need to come together and I think that the creative energy and the. the inventive [00:23:00] brain is so needed. And we, I'm trying to also get people in these businesses to understand that it's okay to, once you do get some sort of an income, to hire people to do things that you don't like doing. The first thing I did was get somebody to do my bookkeeping because I suck at it.

It doesn't mean that I'm a bad business owner. I just suck at that part. I'm really much better at other things. That's why theaters and dance companies have a creative and a financial director. They need both. And so when you're a small business, you have to learn to do the basics yourself. So you might as well have some sort of a structure and a planning and kind of know what actually a strategy is in a way.

And then, With that in place, build a solid [00:24:00] base. Then when you start making some money, then you can make those choices and grow. And what I had to learn and what you said before, I'm basically being the person I needed six years ago. Because I ran a an indie yarn shop and a needle craft school, and I did all the things.

I made the products, I dyed the yarns, I tried everything, but I was so busy. I was on the floor of the shop all the time, so I didn't have what I called office time, and I craved it, because I really needed I really needed it. And I knew I had the talent to, to do better marketing and better branding. I just didn't get round to it.

And I wanted to have a business coach or a consultant or somebody that could help me, but I couldn't afford those prices. And I wasn't, I wasn't at all interested in talking to a man in a suit, like [00:25:00] what will he know about my kind of business? And I couldn't find anybody else. And so when Covid happened, I looked long and hard at my life and I had some health issues and decided that this business, it was profitable.

I, it was profitable, but it wasn't balanced out. It was a lot of work for not a lot of money. And I decided when the dose clo closed for lockdown, I decided I'm not gonna open them again, and I'm gonna. Really do some deep diving and think. What is this, this skill set mix that I have? And as you said, this years of experience in marketing, branding, arts, crafts, all of this.

And then having a couple of small businesses, how can I combine that and be useful? And then this is what happens. Yeah, I

Debbie: really when you, when I hear you describing that, it [00:26:00] really brings to mind your. community offering. So both the, yeah, the community you have and also the business course that you run as well.

And how much value there is in bringing makers and crafters together in these things. Because I imagine, you know, when you're sitting at home in your studio and all you've got to relate to are like other people on Instagram who seemingly have it sorted. There can be this like, oh, what is it? Like, what is it that I'm not getting right here?

What am I not doing right? And so then being able to break that down and connect with other people who are struggling with something very similar and in the same boat as you, like, I know I have found that, like on my own journey, I have found that so helpful that Really taking away those feelings of loneliness and [00:27:00] isolation that can sometimes

Saskia: That's really a thing.

Yes, definitely. And I'm so glad you say that and you see that you saw that. There's two things going on. I think for one business owners are very shy sometimes because they don't have that background and they are scared to tell other people that they're not sure what they're doing. But what happens is, I think it's such a shame that the wheel gets reinvented every single time, whereas in a community, you can share things and it takes So much effort and time and therefore money away that it is a really good idea to connect with other people and to be open and sharing.

But that is something that people need to almost relearn because on [00:28:00] social media is not the same as a community. A community is about. giving as much as receiving, and it's an active energy flow, and it doesn't have to be peaking every day. You don't have to participate every day, but it's definitely different than lurking in the background and just taking what you need and not saying anything.

And this is a hard thing. To communicate about, and people are shy to start. And they're also very reluctant because they think, what if somebody will steal my ideas? That all comes from a feeling of not being confident about what they do. And that is kind of a vicious circle, right? It doesn't end unless you become confident working together.

And then the second thing, what you said, and this is, this is my biggest dream [00:29:00] and my biggest struggle at the same time. I, my vision is a world where everybody wears clothes that are made consciously. And my mission is to try to do that, to bring together the small businesses and the crafters so they can find each other and like connect through their values.

but it's basically running two businesses and I'm just me and the way that I run my business is keeping myself in mind as I just said. So I work 25 hours a week and that's when it all has to happen. So I need to be super structured and have automations and things in place. Otherwise I cannot serve those two target groups, that's two customer sets.

And that's the struggle.

Debbie: It sounds like we need to watch this space then, [00:30:00] somewhere down the line, which feels like a lovely segue to ask if, if the listeners would like to, to find out more. about you potentially join the community or understand your next round of the, the Better Business Circle is coming later this year.

Where can we, where can we find out more?

Saskia: Everything, the whole platform, everything that I do, you can find it on ja wol. com. Let me spell that, j a w o l. com. Or if it's easier for you to remember, patternshift. fm. Do the save website and that's the name of my podcast. So you'll find the community there, the business program, the podcast, and the new bullet journal workshop.

Yes,

Debbie: I saw that. How exciting. How exciting. I love that. To me that really exemplifies what you were talking about around this balance of structure. Yes. And creativity and flow, like billet [00:31:00] journaling really encompasses so much of that and more. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Saskia.

It's been such a pleasure to chat. I feel so, like, bubbly and, like, Me

Saskia: too! I'm getting goosebumps and I can't believe it's over already! I know! I'm getting goosebumps too! I

Debbie: knew that would be our challenge! Thank you so much! That was lovely. Thank you, Debbie. Thank you so much and enjoy the rest of your day.

You too. Bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Beyond Business. If you've loved what you've heard, I would be incredibly grateful if you could rate and review the podcast so that together we can create a global ecosystem of change makers pioneering business as a force for good.

Until then, I look forward to speaking to you in the next episode. 

Debbie Lee
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